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Pietrain X welsh as fatteners??

 
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Pel



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 405


Location: Aberarth, Ceredigion

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Pietrain X welsh as fatteners?? Reply with quote

I've seen that a few of the pig keepers on here have experience with moderns and crosses of these types of pigs, so thought i'd ask on here.

A friend was talking to a local breeder's OH and said they had some pietrain crosses available for November, i'm assuming its crossed with a welsh as that what they mainly breed.
Now i have nothing against this cross, just the reasoning behind my friend's perspective (that might be the wrong word) of the cross.
He said he has heard that the meat is a lot tastier than the welsh, it will also slow the welsh down, and he hopes he will be able to keep it on for longer compared to the welsh... 'we' kept the welsh last time on till 7 months and it was slightly fatty due to probably over feeding and being kept on longer than needed.
They were aiming for a specfic weight rather than when the animal looked ready.
The two fatteners that we kept last time were a OSB and a welsh, both being fed the same amount, ad-lib till around 22 weeks (orginally planned for 18) and then was meant to be restricted, but i dont think it was (i only did morning feeds and if they went away did the other feeds too) till POS (point of slaughter) at 27 weeks.
The feed was farmgate 18% protein, and I think my friend would like to go down the "smallholdery" (sorry dont know what term to use) route where you grow them more slowly....... my personal opinion on slown grown with wrong type of pigs, is that its a stupid thing to do and vice versa.

Reason to behind me thinking they werent restricted is that as we know pigs can get noisy at feed time, except when they are on ad-lib, so when they come of it they squeal... the owners felt guilty that they werent feeding the pigs enough (first time pig keepers).

So my questions are:

Surely the pietrain doesnt slow the welsh down?? (if they do please can you explain, as i thought they were built for speed)
Is the pietrain tastier than the welsh, as i had heard the pietrain are meant to be one of the most/or the most leanest pigs available, so little fat = less flavour perhaps?
Can you keep them for longer without risking the fat with them, most likely on the same feeding regime?
What kind of weight would you expect a PT X WE at 6-7months old, maybe 8months?
How do they do outdoors? (the pen is 4m x 15m)
How would you go about feeding them (2 weaners)? would you ad-lib, or restrict or a bit of both? what feed would you use?

How are they for beginners?
Can you make bacon and pork out of them as thats what they want? (i'm guessing its a yes).

and anything else pro the cross or perhaps negative for the situation.

I'm sure i had more questions, but they've popped out my head.

Also for the situation described above what breed or cross breed would you recommend. The breeds of weaners available at the moment of which i know of that we have round this area are:
Welsh
Wild boar (not 100%)
Berkshire
Berkshire x WB
GOS
GOS x WB
OSB
Saddlebacks
Kune Kunes
Landrace x welsh
Welsh x berkshire

There might even be more, but thats all i can think of atm.
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Last edited by Pel on Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:13 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Pel



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 405


Location: Aberarth, Ceredigion

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just though of another question;

What would be best gilts, boars or castrates ( i dont think castrates will be an option, but i thought i'd ask anyways)?

Just to add access to trailer is by means of a tempory fencing structure which gets put up and done (the wire not the posts that is), so amiable pigs is good, as the pen is probably 10-15m away from where trailer would be parked.
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bodger



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
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Location: Ever so slightly around the bend.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borris Bamf is the man to answer this question. I'm sure that he'll be along shortly.
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debbie
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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Location: exmoor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the commerical breeds Pel, you'll need chris or Borris for that, but as far as the traditional breeds are concerned our berkshire x saddlebacks take add libbing and more feed far better than our pure bred berkshires.  A much larger longer pig is produced - we always do a litter a year for our christmas bacon and hams.
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borrisbamf



Joined: 17 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The welsh cross pietrain is one i have never done before but if anything the pietrain will speed up the growth of the pigs, not slow it down.  The pietrain is very lean so crossing with the welsh should be perfect to add a little fat to the end product. Our pietrain crosses are taken up to 160lbs one last week weighed more than 200lbs. None of these over fat but just have a nice skimming. I would feed the welsh cross pietrain adlib from the word go. As for castrates i would not bother. Other than it been very cruel it also slows down the growth rate. I have eaten meat from boars of ours before and they have had no boar taint so don't be put off by boars. As for the outdoor bit they should be fine. Again the growth rate will be affected though by all the running around and wasting energy on keeping warm. Hope this helps borris
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neathchris



Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 437



PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have tried this cross in the past. We have found they do go slightly slower than the pure breds though, but do have a much better carcuss.
Think ours took about 2-3 weeks longer to get to weight than pures.

I do like the pietrain crosses though are lovely pigs. We did ours outdoors to and they did well. Crosses can still carry stress gene though so handle carefully.

Would feed ad-lib all the way to finish and you should get a good well fleshed carcuss with a nice fat layer, think ours probed at a 10mm.

Personally i would go for a large white cross with a terminal type large white to really see growth rates.

Agree about castrating there is no point, they'll be long gone before any problems could come up.
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Pel



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Location: Aberarth, Ceredigion

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks borris and chirs, thats what i thought about them. They sound good to me... I'll try and encourage my friends to get them, though they may still think its because the pietrain will add fat to the welsh  
My friend said he has talked to other pig farmers down the south east and they had said the above statement, though really i think they probably said it the other way round, but I can only lead the horse to water even if thats him thinking its for some other reason.


Ok feed question:

Which is the prefered type for this cross?
I think we can get a 22% protein feed round here, but i dont think my friend will ever get it so that isnt in the equation.

We do have growers 18-19% protein wynnstay and farmgate, and the farmgate do a 16.5-17% finishers?
I only know the price of the farmgate sow and weaner 16% and thats 5.35 per 20kg, but that be too low i presume?

They all only come in pellets, be nice if they did meal as I hear that pigs prefer a meal to a pellet.

So what would be better to do ad-lib with? and should it be just one type all the way through, or change around 18-20 week mark or later than that?
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neathchris



Joined: 06 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

22% is a grower, the 19% is a finisher. I would feed them 22% all the way, they wont get overly fat so get as much meat on them as you can.
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Pel



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Location: Aberarth, Ceredigion

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if they wont feed them 22%, i guess best to go for the next highest? how longer or damage would it do to them with a lower protein?
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CastleFarm



Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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Location: Nr Hay-on Wye

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please forgive my stealing your thred Pel, but in the opinion of the pig keepers here what time of year would be the best to get some weaners to take advantage of any free friut and veg + the probability of rolled barley after harvest.
Is 22 weeks about average time needed to take an animal up to slaughter weight?
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bodger



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
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Location: Ever so slightly around the bend.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One consideration that i'll be taking into account, is the likelyhood of hot weather at the time of slaughter. Some of the pig people are in the business all year round but for the smallholder fattening a couple of pigs up for the freezer, I'd be looking at buying in pigs around August time. The grain harvests will be all but in and in my case, hopefully I'll have a plentiful supply of apple pulp to look forward to.
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