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Pembroke



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 30


Location: Carmarthenshire, West Wales

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Looking good, keep feeding them until they stop taking it in. The reason they're taking a lot in is to replace the honey that they're consuming to make wax to build up the comb, and to feed the larvae.

They'll then need the sugar to fill the comb for the coming winter, sugar syrup is slightly better for the hive at this time of year as it doesn't set in the same way that honey will and liquid is easier to eat as it doesn't need diluting with so much water.

As the weather gets colder the queen will start laying the winter bees that will keep her warm and snug over the coming months and you should also see any drones (males) that are in the hive being put out as they will soon be useless mouths (it 'aint no fun being a male in nature).
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donky7



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 47


Location: nottingham

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a question, I've stumbled upon a feral nest site, as soon as its discovered by staff at the location they will want it eradicating.

has anyone ever hovered a swarm with a vac (not a standard hoover )

i'd like to remove this lot without destruction.

the location is an old part of a complex, wooden boards, i'm going to take 1 off to inspect (pics to follow)
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rhino



Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1344


Location: The white peak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen hoovering bees on youtube, try that for a tutorial,
Quote:
(it 'aint no fun being a male in nature).

unless you're Alpha  
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Pembroke



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 30


Location: Carmarthenshire, West Wales

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

donky7 wrote:
a question, I've stumbled upon a feral nest site, as soon as its discovered by staff at the location they will want it eradicating.

has anyone ever hovered a swarm with a vac (not a standard hoover )

i'd like to remove this lot without destruction.

the location is an old part of a complex, wooden boards, i'm going to take 1 off to inspect (pics to follow)


About the only way you could do it is to hoover them up (Yes I've seen a hand vac used but only on small numbers of bees, you just need to keep the bees away from any moving parts) and cut out the comb from the nest sized to fit into standard frames. You'd probably have to find some way of stopping the comb falling out it will be quite heavy if it's full of honey. Maybe (and I'm guessing here) wrap thin wire around the outside of the frames or trap something like cocktail sticks in the bare frame grooves and then fit the comb onto them, but put some standard frames into the hive as well. Then put it all into a brood box and let them settle down. The standard frames being so that you can encourage them away from the native comb to standard comb to make handling easier. The trick will probably be to hoover up the queen, the rest will then follow more easily. It will get messy though as cutting the comb will to a certain extent release honey which will go everywhere.

If at all possible though I wouldn't attempt it now. Tell the staff about how bees survive over winter as a cluster and how if they're left alone they will leave the staff alone, then when everything starts happening in the spring (late March early April) then would be a good time to do it as there will be less bees and less heavy comb.

You would need to observe the three feet or three miles rule (move a hive less than three feet, or more than three miles) or they will return to the original site.
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Pembroke



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 30


Location: Carmarthenshire, West Wales

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhino wrote:
I've seen hoovering bees on youtube, try that for a tutorial,
Quote:
(it 'aint no fun being a male in nature).

unless you're Alpha  


True, but as on average half of all new born are male and you only need one then it's not much fun for the rest. Sure they get a bit of life but when the hormones start kicking in it's generally goodbye calf hello hamburger.

As for bees well the male bees get fed by the workers all summer, their sole function is to find and mate with a virgin queen. If they're successful they die as their genitals are ripped from their body and if they don't mate they're useless mouths eating honey that can be used for the winter workers so they all get put out of the hive in the autumn and as they don't know how to feed themselves, it's curtains.

No males live over the winter the queen just lays more when they're needed next summer.
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donky7



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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Location: nottingham

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fantastic advice, many thanks. the comb, i'm sure is confined to a small section between wall boarding 8 inch thick, by 2ft square. so hopefully there wont be too many... I took a few pics before cutting a small section of boarding away, until bees came out ( from inside I was)

should I be lucky enough, i'll be moving the bees a good 15 miles..

heres a pic of me a few yr ago.....


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donky7



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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Location: nottingham

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

images before I cut away a section.

outside view...



inside view...



before cut out section....


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kaz
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Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 13484


Location: North Wales

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm enjoying this thread
That operation looked very drastic
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donky7



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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Location: nottingham

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





next phase is to add a little smoke and open up the section.

any suggestions on how to gather and persuade them to enter my transport box ?
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Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 2496


Location: North Cornwall

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will have to try and get as many into your box as possible, including the queen.  Dustpan and brush might be good, but you will get a lot flying around.  Personally Id try and do it at dusk as more will be inside .  A cardboard box with a heavy cloth on top should do the trick.
I still think you are far too late in the season and will not get them to build enough reserves for winter.  I am now treating mine and removing honey and feeding others as Im shutting them down now at end of season.
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donky7



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 47


Location: nottingham

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm simply wanting to rehome them, not farm them.

do you think by moving them this late will devastate the bees ?
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Pembroke



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 30


Location: Carmarthenshire, West Wales

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Donky, Well it's not ideal to move then this time of year, although the seasons are a little later this year, and a bit strange as lots of plants round my way are flowering again if you can leave them in place until next spring that would be best but if you've got to move then then move them. Much as I'm sure we'd like to we can't save every bee or colony, but we can at least try.

Make sure you get as much of the old comb as you can and feed them with winter syrup until they won't take any more. Personally I wouldn't treat them, any wild colony that's survived in this country will be pretty disease resistant and would be good to breed from in the future and stressing them out with moving and treating may just prove to be too much.

Smallest box you can fit them in, another nuc if the colony is small, or just a brood box if not. The key is to create a space that they can keep warm and dry and keep all their food in without cramping them but also not creating a lot of space that needs heating or where moisture can condense. I would avoid insulation as some people do but that's personal preference. You'll need to start looking at mouse guards for both your colonies soon as well your hive lender should be able to point you at the correct parts.

I'm not sure how the others on this thread feel about insulation, does anyone use it?

Edited to add. To answer your question about hiving them I think I would probably try to set the hive up near the colony (smallest lightest set up you can, just a floor, brood box, crown board and roof), with it slightly elevated off the ground, either on a stand or a milk crate. Then a board ramp up to the entrance with a sheet over it, to stop them going underneath. Then collect up the bees in the dustpan / hoover and shake them out onto the ramp. The bees will always walk upwards, into the dark but you'd need to be able to move the comb as you move the bees so will probably not be able to do it alone. Make sure the queen is one of the first into the hive and the others will follow.
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donky7



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 47


Location: nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, i',m leaning towards leaving them bee.. lol for the winter, this wil give me time to learn more with refrence and also my own cast.

many thanks....

I've also bought 1 of these to play with........

https://www.aldi.co.uk/en/special...t-detail/ps/p/ash-vac-attachment/
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rhino



Joined: 03 Aug 2007
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Location: The white peak

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have messaged you Donky.


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