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bodger

Where do you stand ?

Unless you're strange ( and there are some people about who come into this category) most people are well aware that mankind is quite quickly killing the planet that we live on.
We are breeding like rabbits, using the earths resources to turn out that we think we need to keep up with the Jones's and in doing so creating millions of tons of pollution.
Every now and then, someone will come up with a good idea, like those on this section and this makes us feel good because we think that we're saving the planet. Its the same feeling that we get when we stick our empties into the recycling bin, when all the time deep down most of us know that these efforts are at the most very cosmetic.

At the moment, our economy would appear to be in melt down, factories closing and the worlds manufacturing industries retracting. We are told that we are in a recession, which will lead to depression which will be mirrored in how we  feel in ourselves.

On the other hand, for the worlds health, this has got to be the only good bit of news that its had in a century or more.
We are told that this glitch in the world economy is only temporary and that in about five years time we'll be able to get back into the swing of killing the world. Apparently we can only be successful if we are churning out thousands of cars that clog the roads, steal the countryside to make more roads and to pollute it with fumes.
We will never do it of course, but wouldn't it be great if a countries success wasn't judged by its gross  GDP. Its a great shame that mankind will eventually be finished by what the majority see as success. Its doesn't make sense really.
stumbling goat

sadly but surely those who make the effort to save the planet, go green, reuse, recycle (and i do not mean those terms to be taken in a derogatory manner) etc are only delaying the inevitable?  not that they/you/we should stop.

f4
dan

this piece was posted on another forum................   oops another balls up in the country.................

Taxpayers are facing a multi-million-pound bill to store 100,000 tons of waste paper and cardboard as the British recycling industry plunges into crisis.
Rubbish carefully sorted by householders is piling up in vast warehouses as the market for waste paper collapses, and experts have warned that the mountain of garbage could double in the next three months.

Waste paper is now virtually unsellable, so the private firms contracted to deal with household waste have been forced to put it into storage incurring huge bills.
morlan578

we were encouraged by our landlord to place our paper and bottles in special green bags mmmm theres a huge pile of green bags sitting next to our regularly emptied large wheelie bins ,since christmas so i have stopped adding to the festering pile of empty cans bottles and old newspapers and now put my refuse straight in the bins that the local borough council charge me £94 pound a month to empty "nuff said!!!!"  
Fey Dunnabitt

That’s a very eloquent post, Bodger – eloquent, sad and true.
Where do we stand? Well, I think I was about eight years old (so around 1955) perhaps younger, when I first realised. It was when I was at junior school and some of the boys took the ‘comic’ The Eagle; I saw how much worshipful excitement there was at the idea of space rockets and computers, when there were so many real things to be thrilled and impressed by and so many tragic things that needed changing (poverty, orphaned children, lonely old people, crippled beggars. I knew then that mankind was usually manunkind and that we would break and ruin the world. I saw my parents, miserable in their lives and their marriage, yet stuck and not seeing how they could so easily be happy and I knew that mankind was blinded and stupidly helpless and would not see how easily we could all be freer, kinder and happier. I still hoped, though – I couldn’t believe or couldn’t bear to accept that people wouldn’t hear and realise, if only one explained enough.
Then, in 1957, when I was ten, the Russians sent that poor dog into space. I stood on the terrace, looking up at the moon, and said, “At least they’ll never be able to touch you,” but they did.
I think that whoever wrote about the Apocalypse in Revelations only had to look at human behaviour to be able to predict how it would end - and now it is. It doesn’t matter how much we care or whether we weep oceans or make any and every sacrifice – it was always going to happen, it is happening and, because people are quite wicked and very, very stupid, nothing will stop it. (Yes, I do still try, but it’s only because one doesn’t want to betray one’s principles or loved ones (I mean the earth, not loved ones as in family.))
I also believe that now, we can take even more notice of how lovely everything is, to honour and love it all even more, before it’s completely destroyed.
Fey Dunnabitt

Have you read Stark by Ben Elton? That's tehh same as us trying to loive ecologically - he myst know that no-one will be influenced by his books, except the people who already agree and don't need to be influenced, but he still writes them.

In fact, Jonathgon Swift wrote about it, centuries ago, in Gulliver's Travels, especially the last volume, about the Hounyhmnhms and Yahoos.
Fey Dunnabitt

P.S. This is the first time I've ever had any 'Capital' (though nowhere to live, which rather cancels it out) and I thought that, as my pension is so small that I have to carry a microscope at all times or I'd lose it, I could do what rich people do - put it in a high-interest account to bring my income up to about half what one needs, instead of a quarter. That brilliant scheme lasted for five months. Now, it's going to pay me about 40 pounds a year, if I'm lucky. I think it's hilarious and am dead chuffed, because I never approved of this madgreed Growth capitalist stuff and always knew it'd crash, because it didn't make sense, and now it's all crashing. Rich people must be really upset, but I just larf - I've been destitute and homeless before, so it holds no terrors for me, and I hope their whole system crashes right through its concrete slab and into the cesspit. "Har har," I'll cry.

The only bad bit is that more people will eat horses. Perhaps they could eat each other instead.
Fey Dunnabitt

Oh, and another thing I remember making my heart sink was when Macmillan's words were used (though, as usual, out of context and rather twisted) in the election slogan, "You've never had it so good," because that was all about financial prosperity being the best and most important thing anyone could want. I thought what a wrong way of thinking and what a bad road it'll lead us along, but humans are like goats in a rose garden when it comes to restraint, aren't we?
dtalbot

What will finish us is the breeding like rabbits you mention, there are already twice as many humans on the planet as when I was born (retirement is still a long while away!) but last time I looked the planet was still the same size! Look back though history and more societies have fallen because of outstripping local resources that at the hands of invading hoards and the scary bit this time round is local for current societies resourse demands means planet wide!
Christine

Once upon a time, war sorted out the population. If there was lack of space or resource well you went and had a fight with someone who had what you wanted. In them days, war just damaged an awful lot of people rather than an awful lot of place as there was a lack of technology.

Nowadays war is going to wipe out people and place. Not good.
Fey Dunnabitt

Christine wrote:
In them days, war just damaged an awful lot of people rather than an awful lot of place as there was a lack of technology.

Nowadays war is going to wipe out people and place. Not good.


Well, that's true, but nowadays peace wipes out people and place, just as much as war, only it does it differently, more subtly. Technology is the reason in both cases, or perhaps not the reason (humans are the reason) but the means.
BorderReiver

Growth.

That's what the problem is; too many people.

Global business and governments worship at the shrine of growth and until they stop CO2 emissions will NEVER come down. They need a growing population to buy more and more of what they produce.

We cannot keep expanding indefinitely. Overpopulation will lead to human suffering on an unprecedented scale. The denser the population, the more likelihood of pandemics, water shortage and conflict.

Much better to start reducing the growth of our population now.

IMO.
Fey Dunnabitt

BorderReiver wrote:
Growth.

That's what the problem is; too many people.

Global business and governments worship at the shrine of growth and until they stop CO2 emissions will NEVER come down. They need a growing population to buy more and more of what they produce.

We cannot keep expanding indefinitely. Overpopulation will lead to human suffering on an unprecedented scale. The denser the population, the more likelihood of pandemics, water shortage and conflict.

Much better to start reducing the growth of our population now.

IMO.


It's obvious, or it should be, that nothing can keep growing or expanding indefinitely - if it does, it'll fall over or explode, whether it's a beanstalk, a population, or an 'economy' - but the population problem will sort itself out, as we all die of the diseases induced by pollution and over-indulgence, or kill each other in wars for survival. It's going to be unimaginably horrible. It's just tragic that, by then, we'll leave so much mess and pollution that everything else will be killed as well. Think of all the leaking nuclear power stations and stockpiled toxic chemicals, with no humans to control them - whoosh!
Woodburner

dtalbot wrote:
What will finish us is the breeding like rabbits you mention, there are already twice as many humans on the planet as when I was born (retirement is still a long while away!) but last time I looked the planet was still the same size!

Funny you should mention that, because I found out the same thing only a couple of days ago.

dtalbot wrote:
Look back though history and more societies have fallen because of outstripping local resources that at the hands of invading hoards and the scary bit this time round is local for current societies resourse demands means planet wide!


That's the scariest thing for me, forget the economy, the whole planet is turning into Easter Island. (And how many people live there now?!)

I do try and do my bit, both by living as environmentally friendly as I can, and by 'preaching' what I practice. Unfortunately, I don't often find that I am preaching to the converted, more like the unconvertable!
I needed a break from trying to keep the tide back so I remembered Bodger, and his forum.
I'm thinking about writing a couple of articles on environmentally friendly chicken keeping and GYO with the environment. ;)

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