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shark

lurchers

what do you look for in a lurcher, and what is the best cross ,to go for,when it comes to rabbits, and working with ferrets.i am coming over to the uk,soon ,is the any good breeders on here.
CI HIR


I would go for a Bedlington greyhound,good ferreting dog and also a good lamping dog.The Countryman`s Weekly has some decent dogs for sale.
These are my two lurchers.They`re good all rounders.I use them mainly for lamping.The dog`s a Bedlington greyhound x Wheaten greyhound 24" tts and my bitch is deerhound greyhound 26" tts.
CI HIR


Oops here`s the dog.
kaz

Lovely looking dogs
bodger

Its horses for courses, it depends upon what you want them to do. My best dogs for lamping rabbits have all been big non pedigree racing whippets. I found that they took to the game very readily and that they were very obedient.
Getting hold of the right sort is now extremely difficult and to be honest, I wouldn't have a clue where to start looking.
Alacrity

bodger wrote:
Its horses for courses, it depends upon what you want them to do. My best dogs for lamping rabbits have all been big non pedigree racing whippets. I found that they took to the game very readily and that they were very obedient.
Getting hold of the right sort is now extremely difficult and to be honest, I wouldn't have a clue where to start looking.


 Whippets all the way lol!





















I could post more, but you're probably bored now lol!

TCx
bodger

Bored !      Don't be silly    Smashing dog and fantastic picture as well.

Thanks for sharing.
rustyboy

Absolutely Crackerjack!!

http://rmtphotography.webs.com
confused

Top dog, a cracker  
taysideferret

I agree with Alacrity,whippets all the way    The whippet is a very under rated little dog.

Love the pics btw.  
earthdog

Re: lurchers

shark wrote:
what do you look for in a lurcher, and what is the best cross ,to go for,when it comes to rabbits, and working with ferrets.i am coming over to the uk,soon ,is the any good breeders on here.


Some pictures of my lurchers...

Reeba (collie cross)




Kes (whippet cross)





What do we look for...
We've got 2 totally different lurchers... an old fashioned rough coated hairy collie cross that comes in at 26inch to the shoulder, and a little big eared whippet cross thats about 21 inch to the shoulder.

We look for fantastic feet, intelligence, agility and good striking ability. Temperement of course has to be 100% as we have other dogs and a 4 yr old daughter that loves molly coddling the dogs (all of whom live in the house - 2 lurchers and 4 border terriers!).

Cross wise...
Big blue merle is a bitza lurcher... old fasioned, bitza deerhound, bitza collie (various types), bitza greyhound, bitza all sorts. Best of the best of working lurcher mated to working lurcher.
Black lurcher is 3/4 whippet 1/4 Kelpie. Not everybodys cup of tea, taken a lot of training and hard work, but for 12 months old her catch rate is unbelievable. Very clever and very wick!

With ferrets...
Have worked both of ours with ferrets, and they are sound. Crosses of all sorts have become adept to working with ferrets, it's just what you put in to them that counts. Collie blooded dogs seem to have more patience for working with them, rather than straight sound hounds. To be fair,  you can't beat straight whippets for working with ferrets, but what lets them down if they are stood about for a long time in the cold seems to be their coats.

Don't know about good breeders... we tend to breed our own! Just find out as much as you can about the parents and see them work if you can.

Shell & Malc
bodger

The eyes have it.

Thanks for the pictures and a really good write up.
rustyboy

Lovely couple of dogs there earthdog..bodger is right about those eyes isnt he..cracking poses in those first two photo's as well..well captured

http://rmtphotography.webs.com
earthdog

Thanks guys! The eyes are something aren't they! Both blue... but one started changing to dark when she was a tiny pup... but only half changed, so one eye is half light blue and half dark.

I like that top picture so much I had it tattooed onto my arm! lol

Shell
Alacrity

Oooh Reeba is nice!

Obviously I'm biased and think they are fantastic dogs.

I'd agree, one weakness can be the coat but ours seem to carry on regardless as they live for catching rabbits lol! My racing bred whippet (sadly no longer with me could not cope as well with the elements as he really was fine all over, especially his coat)







It was so cold that day I don't know how I held the camera or set any nets lol! I know the guy in the last picture wasn't enjoying himself and couldn't wait for the flasks to be cracked open  

TCx
bpotts

im with alacrity and taysideferret ,whippets are the way to go
welshboy

Bored ! I was enthralled- it brought back a lot of memories of my two lurchers- brilliant photos can we have some more please
shark

thanks for the advice ,and a big thanks for sharing the photos great stuff   i have decided to go for one off Dave Hancock lurchers, as anybody ever brought one of is lurchers,and please more photos keep them coming    
bearinator

I wouldn't go to hancock mate as he doesn't work his dogs any more, if you want a first cross collie greyhound. Go to some one with a coursing greyhound bitch thats been lined with a good working collie. I love the look of that merle Earthdog mate. Pure whippets or bedlington crosses are good for ferreting. Alacrity thats one fine looking whippet you have there and excellent pictures
bodger

I visited Hancocks place well over 20 years ago. They were over priced then and they are no doubt over priced now. All you are doing is buying a name and a name that was never really upto much at that.

He had various sorts of collies and collie crosses which he put to reject racing greyhounds which more than likely cost him nothing. It really was a puppy farm.

It depends upon what you expect your lurcher todo for you. You live in the country that breeds the best greyhounds in the world, so you're half way towards getting the lurcher of your dreams.
Phil

"I wouldn't go to hancock mate as he doesn't work his dogs any more"
Are you saying that a pup from Hancock cant,wont,work because the sire isn't worked.
bearinator

Phil i'm saying that i would rather get a pup off workng parents mate, not stud dogs and brood bitches. I know a few people that have had good working dogs off hancock but i know more people that have had good working collie crosses off farm collies and working whippets or greyhounds. If i was buying another pup in i would want good working parents as the foundation stock not dogs kept in kennels and bred from.
Phil

Better in what way,
bodger

Not a lot of difference between a coursing greyhound and a racing greyhound. There are litters of pups that have performed well in both codes. Coursing greyhounds may have a little more stamina but in the same breath, there are racing greyhounds that are bred with long distance racing in mind.

With a working collie cross greyhound cross, you tend to have the raw material in your hand and then its up to you to make of it.
The next cross on is generally the finished article but then you really do need to make sure that the half cross father is a worker.
Phil

Why a working collie,what does that add too a hunting dog that a non working collie doesn't.
bodger

Fitness for purpose. A working collie will have been bred for brains and not just for mere good looks.
earthdog

Whenever that name (Hancock) is mentioned it is bound to stir up a debate. There's always such debates about Hancock lurchers on any of the hunting forums... He breeds that many lurchers you'll always get some people that get one that doesn't do what they want and is naff, and you'll always get some people that think theirs are fantastic and the best they've ever known. He does breed a lot though, so you are always going to hear both sides!

Me personally... wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.  Too much uncertainty as to whether you'd get a good one, or a naff one. I'd much sooner go to someone who has a couple of lurchers, does a bit of mooching about with them, and is breeding a litter to keep a pup back for themselves. You could get a damned good lurcher from true working parents for what Hancock charges.

In saying all that, Reeba (thanks for the compliment about her bearinator) has some Hancock behind her way back on her mothers side. Atol wasn't the best worker at all... but she put her heart and soul into everything she was ever tried at, which to me meant more than anything.

If you do go to Hancock and get one, I hope it does you proud, and is as good a trier as my old lass was.

Good luck with your search,

Shell
bearinator

As Bodger said plus there are farm collies that will catch rabbits and foxes but cunning enough to pluck a hare from the seat. Farm collies tend to be the ones to give visitors a sly nip when they aren't looking, in my experience anyway
shark

if Hancock  lurcher were no good, why are people still buying is dogs,and he is still breeding Lurchers .do you think if a different person was breeding the same dogs as hancock ,it would be a different story
Phil

Have any of you who don't recommend Hancock ever had one of his dogs.
earthdog

shark - he breeds that many that there will always be people out there who have really good ones... likewise some people will always be unhappy with them. I don't doubt for a minute he turns out some fantastic lurchers... but he also turns out the other end of the scale. People will always buy them, cos they are 'hancock lurchers'!

Personally, I've only had 'hand' experience of Reebas mother Atol who had a Hancock dog behind her a bit back (and also her mother whom I used to go out hunting with a bit). Although Atol wasn't a pure Hancock lurcher, she looked it. Atol excelled at ratting... on the lamp, rubbish, mooching about, great, bounced back from injuries really well. But she was only one watered down Hancock lurcher out of hundreds if not thousands out there!

So that's my personal experience of owning a (watered down) Hancock lurcher lol!

I know a couple of people who have bought direct from Hancock... one was over the moon with his lurcher, the other not.

Shell
bodger

Phil wrote:
Have any of you who don't recommend Hancock ever had one of his dogs.


No, but I knew plenty of people who did. They were no better or worse than any other collie crosses but cost a hell of a lot more.

When I visited him in the early 80s, he had 20 to 30 greyhound bitches on the place. Ever heard of the law of averages? His name was made by his inclusion in the Brian Plummer books.
Phil

The law of averages works equally for a one off litter by someone who want a pup,then his mates get to pick before you.
bodger

You misunderstand me Phil. What I meant by the law of averages, is that if you breed hundreds of anything, then the law of averages says that at sometime or another you will probably breed an outstanding performer.
bearinator

I've only had 1 pure hancock bitch border cross greyhound, i got her at 5 month old as my friend finished with his lass and had nowhere to leave the dog, she was a ok bitch in the field but not the best. She was shy with strangers but that is a good trait in my book. I've had a deer/grey cross hancock bitch that collapsed in the field at 9 months old after taking a heart attack running rabbits. I wouldn't blame the heart attack on the hancock breeding as a friend had the uncle to my bitch a deer/grey dog 28" and that took a heart attack at 2 on a day time hare, i ain't naming the deer/grey breeder though on a forum but i would never get a deer/grey from there lines again
shark

do you think ,if  another breeder was breeding the same lurchers as Hancock,it would be a different story, is more do with Dave hancock, and not is dogs.would it not be better to buy a dog with some pedigree,than buy a dog from someone that breeds them in the back yard, and crossed with anything.
bodger

What do you want your future lurcher to do for you in the field ?
shark

bodger wrote:
What do you want your future lurcher to do for you in the field ?
hi bodger ,i want my lurcher to work along side my ferrets,and all so for lamping,at night.i just find it confusing ,with all the different crosses of lurchers,and i do not understand why people do not like Hancock lurcher's, they seem to be a safer option,because you no is dogs have some pedigree,i no in allot of peoples eyes he runs a puppy farm,but what is the differences,with him ,and some other breeder with a few dogs doing it in is back yard,and as for price is pups are only 200 pounds ,the is other breeders you are selling lurcher for hell of lot more.and what differences does it make if he does not work is dogs,is it not up to the person with a pup to train it.
welshboy

bearinator wrote:
As Bodger said plus there are farm collies that will catch rabbits and foxes but cunning enough to pluck a hare from the seat.

I can vouch for two collies that would lamp rabbits and foxes as I used to use them as a kid. One would also watch and look after the otherside of the hedge when working the hedge along with a terrier and spaniel after rabbits. It knew exactly where to be at the right time.
bodger

How much is he asking for a pup these days Sharkie ? Its a shame that you havent got any mates with good dogs. If you did, then I'd wait for litter to come along from from working parents.
shark

bodger wrote:
How much is he asking for a pup these days Sharkie ? Its a shame that you havent got any mates with good dogs. If you did, then I'd wait for litter to come along from from working parents.
200 pounds
bodger

Have a look through these Sharkie.

http://www.epupz.co.uk/search/pup...ea=all&st=1&breed=Lurcher
tatsblisters

A word of warning to anybody going to hancock for a lurcher don't be tempted to buy a sappling [pup over 5 months] instead of a pup.As this breed of lurcher needs plenty of socializing at a young age.atb tats
One for the Pot

It all depends on the ground you working the dog to.

For me it's very large fields, so I have very leggy dogs, nice tight feet, long body, good neck and decent bone (Not too heavy). It took a while to get the right physique.

A good coursing dog x A decent Lamping dog is the way to go for me.
Phil

I now have a two year old collie greyhound cross off Hancock that works with the ferrets marking and catching bolters, so for all of you nay sayers, if you haven't got first hand experience of Hancock dogs keep your opinions to yourself, because that's all they are, your opinion.
bearinator

Any pictures of yours Phil, my mate is running a big black dog from him and it's a good dog going off what I've been told off my pals .  Nobody knocked him really they just said there was good and bad in all breeds. I'm working 2 pure greyhound bitches at the minute but breeding the old bitch to my mates australian cattle dog x collie line which will probably have Hancock blood in it
One for the Pot

I have seen a few of the Hancock bred dogs work. Some interested me back in 1999. Great for rabbits, and only a few would take and FINISH a fox. There was one however that would do the job nicely, no tail biting and swinging like a kite.......
kabar

Whenever Hancock is mentioned any where plenty of folk give opinions of other peoples dogs or regurgitate that they have read on other huning sites. I spoke to a number of people that owned and used Hancock dogs before buying, all said they were pleased and the dog worked well.
His place is not as bad as people say, it is what it is, a large kennel for breeding dogs for work. His practices dont sit well with a lot who say he is a puppy farmer. If you ask him a question he will give you a straight answer, including what happens to the bitches once they have given him the litters he wants. His dogs don't work but he is made aware of how dogs he has sold have performed which will give an ability to see if the breeding is working.
Any dog from any line needs to be brought on right to work, if it doesn't see much and isn't given the chance to learn then the owner will get out of it that they put in.
I had mine off him two years ago as an 8 week old, he is out of Kubla Khan.
I'm satisfied with his working ability, he ferrets / lamps / and works with a terrier to bushed rabbits. He is steady to the shot gun and will retrieve shot rabbits. You cant hunt fox with dogs now so how he would do I don't know, he isn't shy with other dogs so I suspect he would do fine.
He was easy to train and retrieves to hand.
He does though have his faults as a pet... he whines alot, from a pup he has been really noisy in his kennel when left and to this day will cry sometimes in a very annoying way (neither a bark or a whine but loud and like nails on a black board).
I don't think I would have another as I'm not happy with how he his when not out working.
I spoke to Hancock about his noise in the kennel and he ofered to swap him for another pup. As I knew what would happen with him when he went back I decided to plough on, much to the annoyance of the neighbours!
Each to their own, Jeff suits me for now.



bodger

I visited David Hancocks place in the early eighties. I found him to be very friendly and informative. At that time, he had a load of greyhound bitches on the place and a number of different collie types and their crosses.
He's bred thousands of pups and the law of averages says that he must have bred both good ones and bad ones. Using a pure bred greyhound, especially if you know what you're doing must surely take a lot of the guess work out of breeding pups.
kabar

The one thing you can be sure of is that you are getting what you paid for and not something that may grow to become something quite unexpected.
One for the Pot

I visited his kennels...sorry I meant scrap yard ONCE on my own, and another time with a friend who was interested in meeeting him to discuss a pup.

The bearded man came out holding his bible of Sires and Dams in his hand. Lovely chap, when he finally managed to climb over and all the rubble and car batteries, empty oil drums and god knows what else was breeding on the floor, we shook hands.

For a man who owns such a place, he sure can sell puppies.

My friend walked away without a pup.
bodger

I remember the scrapyard .
He showed us a Landrover that he'd got in. It had been hit head on by two on a motorbike and had almost been split down the middle. Both rider and pillion were killed. Its funny how you remember such trivia so many years on.
One for the Pot

bodger wrote:
I remember the scrapyard .
He showed us a Landrover that he'd got in. It had been hit head on by two on a motorbike and had almost been split down the middle. Both rider and pillion were killed. Its funny how you remember such trivia so many years on.


Not nice at all.

But I'm glad you do remember the scrap yard. In the past  I have mentioned this to people and they don't believe me.  

I also remember turning up late and dark due to getting lost. There were no lights at the location. We were greated by the man himself who guided us in across the yard holding an old small railway torch.

Very eccentric!
bodger

He's certainly made good use of his connection with Plummer.
yeeharr

i saw an excellent Hancock run, my pal had him, in the late 80's, he was 27" tts, a rough coated merle. He would work with ferrets, run the beam for bunnies, tackle fox and retrieve to the gun. He was steady and quiet with fantastic prey drive. He didn't have the stamina for hare and that was his only fault. The 2 others that i saw were in the mid 90's, they were brother and sister, although I suspect they may have been litter mates. The bitch was broken coated and about 24" tts and really light framed, the dog was about 26" tts and a smooth coated heavy set dog. The bitch opened up as she ran and lacked any strike, she was too busy yapping and didn't have the speed for open field rabbits. The dog would spin around on the end of the slip like a loon and do that weaving thing that collies do. He would often pull up and jack and lacked any real drive.
These were the days before the internet really and all we had was the Shooting News (now The Countrymans Weekly) and word of mouth. I'd have gladly had a Hancock dog until I saw the last two run. I'm sure he still chucks out good dogs but I'm a firm believer in the proof being in the pudding. I wouldn't buy a dog on name alone.

I personally am a deerhound x greyhound fella and the only running dog that I've had that wasn't was a whippet x collie. He was lightning quick, a lovely dog to have around the house but not a proper running dog. He was a valued family member though.
Dave C

Few pics of my Lad Paddy










ATB
Dave.
bearinator

Nice that Dave, credit to you
One for the Pot

Dave, your dog reminds me of the bitch I once owned.


sod

I don't know the person     But I think as some have said on here that he's done a lot  of breeding so laws of average come into breeding  but also  skill of people buying them, we see this with stock dogs "best breeding stupid owner = stupid dog" yeah right!! we have managed to get retrain and pass on several of these dogs. This is not saying anyone on here fits this but these people seem to be the ones that talk the most good ones just get on with it  untill asked like on here IMHO
Dave C

Yeh see what you mean Artic,nice bitch mate.

He has been a cracking worker very much an allrounder and sired 2 very nice litters, both litters in double figures and each having 8 - 9 brindles in them.

Cheers
Dave.

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