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bodger

Drat

I've used long plastic pipes as rat bait stations on my place for years and never had a problem but I've just met up with one. I've just checked one and something has scratched an amount of poison out of the pipe. This has almost certainly given some of my chickens the chance to eat some.
I can only keep my fingers crossed and hope that they are going to be OK

I'm not sure how it effects chickens, don't know which birds may have eaten it or how much and although the antidote for anticoagulent is vitamin K, I don't know whether or how to administer it.
trapworks

Give them plenty of greens mate. Spinach, brussels, etc. That is the main source of Vit K and most chooks love greens anyway.

mole trapper

Most chicken layers feed contains high levels of K1, that is why rats around egg units are difficult to treat.
bodger

Early days yet but they all look bright and breezy this morning. Fingers crossed.
matt the rat

To be an effective antidote, it has to be the right sort of vitamin K (Vitamin K1).  Even then, huge quantities of chicken feed or greens have to be eaten for any effect at all.

There was an old wives tale floating around for years that maize silage nullified the effects of anticoagulants.  It is'nt true, and Sorex got so fed up with it that they even carried out a scientific trial to prove it.

The good thing about DRAT is that it is first generation, and therefore, very cumulative.  It is a good bait to use because multiple feeds are needed and therefore it goes 'through' the system, unlike the second gen stuff like Difenacoum and Bromadialone, which usually give a LD on the first feed.

Using bits of pipe is OK providing you can restrict the access in some way.  I've seen songbirds taking bait from the old 'Rat Eyre' baiting tubes in the past.

Also, keep an eye on labels.  Conditions of use are changing, and permenant baiting as a precaution will not be possible with the new 26 week rule.

Personally, I am finding that traps are better for permenant bait boxes, switching over to bait if there is a problem.  I do a number of large scale poultry units (50,000+ birds) which have the AF bait boxes permanantly in place with Kness snap E traps on board.  I'm picking up a few wandering rats each month before they get chance to find a way in and get established.

Last week, we cleaned out one house which was notoriously bad in the past.  My little rat bashing machine killed every rat that bolted (total of 11) from the dung pit.  At the last clean out of this house, we killed 89 with the terrier, with me trapping/baiting/shooting a further 35 over the next three days.  Prior to that, the farm lads killed over 200 with shovels when they cleaned out.

The only other thing I did with that house last time was to do a few hours proofing.  Any holes throught the walls were blocked up, and meshed, and I concreted in a few holes in the floor.

I'll find ye some pics....
bodger

Cheers Matt  

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word drat. I'd forgotten that its a trade name, I was actually using Neokil.
The chickens are still bright and breezey this morning, so I'm hopeful that I'm in the clear.
I am going to up my Fenn traps numbers from four to around ten and I'm also going to increase my professional style rat bait boxes. Whether these will prevent mice kicking bait out all over the place, which is what caused the problem in the first place, is unlikely though.  
matt the rat

No problems Bodger.

Neokil is a different kettle of fish.  AI is Difenacoum, with an LD50 of 36,000 mg/kg.  

If it's mice that are taking the bait (most likely Apedemus Spp) then traps are the way forward.

Here is a picture of my poultry set up:



Before anyone slates me, yes that box is filthy!  Picture was taken at clean out time, and the slurry from washing out goes everywhere!  Once cleaning is underway, and if I'm happy that the rats are under control, the lids get removed from the boxes so that they can be pressure washed and reset.  Changeover is about every 9 months.

These boxes have been down for about 2 years now.  The system works, and one of the advantages of the AF box is it's versitillity.  There are horizontal and vertical bait bars, and slots for the kness traps or helland drinkers.

Having said that, the newish Rogaurd boxes are also very good.  They do however suffer from a few design faults - the locks tend to jam up with crud, and if you fix them in place against a wall, you cannot open the lid fully to write on the date label.

For serious infestations I have gone back to using home made wooden boxes, similar to the old MAFF design.  I'll take some pics of them later.
bodger

Those boxes for use with the break back traps look good. Where can I get them and how much are they to buy ?
matt the rat

Killgerm will deal with anyone, so I'm not bothered about giving away prices etc.

AF Rat Boxes

Kness Snap E Rat traps

And I'm getting great results with this new product on the traps.
bodger

I've still got a trade acount with Killgerm, so I'll give them a try.
The local farmers merchant has a variety of plastic break back traps but I'll find out which ones before i buy them and get back to you.
The only thing is that the fenn traps saved me from disaster twice last year and obviously, the break backs would not have acounted for these particular offenders. A mixture of both is probably the way forward.
matt the rat

bodger wrote:
I've still got a trade acount with Killgerm, so I'll give them a try.
The local farmers merchant has a variety of plastic break back traps but I'll find out which ones before i buy them and get back to you.
The only thing is that the fenn traps saved me from disaster twice last year and obviously, the break backs would not have acounted for these particular offenders. A mixture of both is probably the way forward.


Make sure you order the 'standard' AF boxes, rather than the 'Tuff' version (they aren't worth the extra dosh IMHO).

The box is designed to take the Kness trap, although I suspect that other brands may fit.  The Kness trap is second to none in the breakback dept.  I've seen and tested various others, and they just don't come up to the job.

This set up works as a 'run through' the same as fenns in a tunnel, so it is a good alternative which offers the benefit of being able to bait as well.

A mixture of techniques and methods is always best.  Permanent baiting will soon be history, so the sooner people realise that and find better solutions the better.

A drop (broad bean sized) of that 'Provoke' in the baiting cup on the Kness traps brings em into the trap and tends to cause a life ending distraction.  It's non toxic as well, so it's a good organic way ahead.  I trialled the mouse version for Bell a few years ago, and that was not a lot of cop to be honest.  The rat version is a totally different product, and is doing the business for me at the moment.

I've spent most of the morning working on one of my websites, so must dash off now.  Got two call outs for rats, three routines, and three mole jobs to do today, and I'm quiz master in the village hall tonight !

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