Over the Gate

lilwitedogs · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 1170 Location: Kentucky

Anyone ever try sourdough?
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Yvonne
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Gareth · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:

Not yet, but it is something that I have wanted to try for a while.

Do you have a recipe?
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In Lust, In Like, In Love.

Gareth

"It’s going to take time, a whole lot of precious time. It’s going to take patience and time; to do it right."

Gareth · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject:

I have just had a goggle, and found this:

Sourdough Baking: The basics by S. John Ross.

Sourdough bread is bread made without added yeast. By making a "starter" in which wild yeast can grow, the sourdough baker can raise bread naturally, as mankind did for thousands and thousands of years before a packet of yeast was an available convenience at the local market. Not all sourdough is sour-tasting; Amish Friendship Bread and other types of live-yeast breads are also sourdough.

To become a sourdough baker, all you need are some basic ingredients (flour, water, salt, and sugar), some basic tools (a mixing bowl, an oven, and a baking sheet), and a basic interest. This page is for the novice sourdough baker, but assumes that the reader is familiar with regular yeast-based baking. If you can make bread, you can make sourdough bread.

There are only a few simple steps to becoming a sourdough baker. First, you must create a starter: This is a bubbly batter that you keep in your fridge. The starter is mixed into a dough, and it causes the bread to rise. Bake and serve. Yum!

Creating Your Starter

The novel thing about sourdough baking is that it requires that you keep something alive in your fridge. I think of my starter as a pet, kept and fed so that Sandra and I will have all the bread we need. Sourdough "starter" is a batter of flour and water, filled with living yeast and bacteria. The yeast and bacteria form a stable symbiotic relationship, and (as long as you keep the starter fed) can live for centuries, a thriving colony of microorganisms. To make sourdough bread, you blend the starter with some flour and make dough. The yeast propogates, and leavens your bread. This is how you make your starter:

Select a container that your "pet" will live in. A wide-mouthed glass jar is best. I use a glass jar with a rubber and wireframe seal; you can find these for $2-$4 in any antique or junk shop. A small crock with a loose lid is also great; these can be bought in cheap sets for serving soup. You can also use a rubbermaid or tupperware container. I've begun starters using the plastic containers that take-out Chinese soup comes in, and then transferred them to jars later! A wide-mouthed mayonnaise or pickle jar will also do just fine. Metallic containers are a bad idea; some of them are reactive and can ruin your starter (for the same reason, avoid using metal utensils to stir your starter).
Blend a cup of warm water and a cup of flour, and pour it into the jar. That's the whole recipe! I use plain, unbleached bread flour most of the time, but I've had good results with all-purpose and whole-wheat flour, too. If you want, you can add a little commercial yeast to a starter to "boost" it. If you do this, sourdough snobs will look down their nose at you - but who cares about snobs? I personally find that (at least here where I live) no yeast "boost" is necessary, and I can make "real" sourdough with no trouble. But if you are having trouble, go ahead and cheat. I won't tell. Note that starter made with commercial yeast often produces a bread with less distinctive sour flavor than the real thing.
Every 24 Hours, Feed the Starter. You should keep the starter in a warm place; 70-80 degrees Farenheit is perfect. This allows the yeast already present in the flour (and in the air) to grow rapidly. Temperatures hotter than 100 degrees or so will kill it. You can take comfort from the fact that almost nothing else will do so. The way you feed the starter is to (A) throw away half of it and then (B) add a half-cup of flour and a half-cup of water. Do this every 24 hours. Within three or four days (it can take longer, a week or more, and it can happen more quickly) you should start getting lots of bubbles throughought, and a pleasant sour or beery smell. The starter may start to puff up, too. This is good. Here's the gist: When your starter develops a bubbly froth, it is done. You have succeeded. If this sounds brain-dead simple, that's because it is. People who didn't believe the Earth was round did this for millenia.
Refrigerate the Starter. Keep the starter in your fridge, with a lid on it. Allow a little breathing space in the lid. If you're using a mayo or pickle jar, punch a hole in the lit with a nail, that kind of thing. Once the starter is chilled, it needs to be fed only once a week. Realistically, you can get away with less; it's important to remember that your starter is a colony of life-forms that are almost impossible to kill (except with extreme heat). Even starving them is difficult.
Care and Feeding: Hooch

Aside from weekly feeding, the only other thing you need to worry about is hooch. Hooch is a layer of watery liquid (often dark) that contains alchohol. It smells a bit like beer, because it is a bit like beer - but don't drink it! Hooch builds up in your starter, especially in the fridge. Just pour it off or stir it back in. It doesn't hurt anything. If your starter is looking dry, stir it back in. If your starter is plenty wet, pour it off. Just remember that hooch is nothing to worry about!

Sourdough Baking Step One: Proofing the Sponge

Several hours before you plan to make your dough (recipe below), you need to make a sponge. A "sponge" is just another word for a bowl of warm, fermented batter. This is how you make your sponge.

Take your starter out of the fridge. Pour it into a large glass or plastic bowl. Meanwhile, wash the jar and dry it. You may also wish to pour boiling water over it, since you don't want other things growing in there with your pet!
Add a cup of warm water and a cup of flour to the bowl. Stir well, and set it in a warm place for several hours. This is called "proofing," another word for fermenting. Sourdough bakers have their own language; use it to impress your friends ;)
Watch for Froth and and Sniff. When your sponge is bubbly and has a white froth, and it smells a little sour, it is ready. The longer you let the sponge sit, the more sour flavor you will get.
The proofing-time varies. Some starters can proof up to frothiness in an hour or two. Some take 6-8 hours, or even longer. Just experiment and see how long yours takes. If you're going to bake in the morning, set your sponge out to proof overnight.

Sourdough Baking Step Two: The Actual Recipe

Of course, there are a lot of recipes for sourdough bread. There are also recipes for sourdough rolls, sourdough pancakes, sourdough pretzels, sourdough bagels, and probably sourdough saltines for all I know. This is the basic recipe I use, though, and it's simple and makes a fine bread. You'll need the following:

2 Cups of sponge (proofed starter)
3 Cups of unbleached flour
2 tablespoons of olive oil or softened margarine
4 teaspoons of sugar
2 teaspoons of salt
First, let's talk about leftover sponge. You should have some. The leftover sponge is your starter for next time: Put it into the jar, and give it a fresh feed of a half-cup each of flour and warm water. Keep it in the fridge as above; you'll have starter again next time.

Now, for the recipe: To the sponge, add the sugar, salt, and oil (the oil is optional - you can use softened butter instead, or no oil at all). Mix well, then knead in the flour a half-cup at a time. Knead in enough flour to make a good, flexible bread dough. You can do this with an electric mixer, a bread machine on "dough cycle," or a food processor. You can also do it with a big bowl and your bare hands.

Keep in mind that flour amounts are approximate; flour varies in absorbency, and your sponge can vary in wetness. Use your judgement; treat it like ordinary white or french bread dough.

Let the dough rise in a warm place, in a bowl covered loosely with a towel (if you're using a bread machine's dough cycle, let it rise in the machine). Note that sourdough rises more slowly than yeast bread; my starter takes about an hour or so, but some starters take much longer. Let the dough double in bulk, just like yeast-bread dough. When a finger poked into the top of the dough creates a pit that doesn't "heal" (spring back), you've got a risen dough.

Punch the dough down and knead it a little more. Make a loaf and place it on a baking sheet (lightly greased or sprinkled with cornmeal). Slit the top if you like, and cover the loaf with a paper towel and place it in a warm place to rise again, until doubled in bulk.

Place the pan with the loaf in your oven, and then turn your oven to 350o Farenheit and bake the bread for 30-45 minutes. Do not preheat the oven. The loaf is done when the crust is brown and the bottom sounds hollow when thumped with a wooden spoon. Turn the loaf out onto a cooling rack or a towel and let it cool for an hour before slicing.

And that's that. If you double the recipe for two big two-pound loaves of bread, the total price tag will be less than a dollar.

Comments and Notes and Ramblings

For good rising, I use my oven. Turn the oven on for a minute or so, then turn it off again. This will warm the oven and make it a great environment to raise bread. If you can't comfortably press your hand against the inside of the oven door, the oven is too hot. Let it stand open to cool a bit.

I'm continually amazed at the elegance of sourdough baking . . . Bread is simple and yet it's one of the most satisfying foods there is, and the most fundamental.

If any part of the article is unclear, refer to the sourdough section of my FAQ for help. For the sake of my health and good cheer, I am no longer accepting sourdough emails due to regrettable abuses of my preferred open-inbox policy. The good news is that the article and FAQ already include everything I've learned, so you should have plenty to begin with. Best of luck with it, and most of all remember to have fun, never mind getting messy, and enjoy sharing the results with those you love.

- S. John Ross

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This article is Copyright ©1997-98 by S. John Ross. Link all you want; I'll write more.

Version 1.14, updated 12/11/2005

I am going to give this a go, when I have finished the current kitchen project.
_________________
In Lust, In Like, In Love.

Gareth

"It’s going to take time, a whole lot of precious time. It’s going to take patience and time; to do it right."

lilwitedogs · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 1170 Location: Kentucky

Gareth,
I've got a starter I've kept going since 1991. We brought it back from a trip to Alaska. It makes great waffles and pancakes and bread.
I've never tried to catch wild yeast, but I have an idea that if one used packaged yeast, it would work pretty well. The sour part if it depends somewhat on how long one lets the culture work before using it after it is fed.
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Yvonne
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Gareth · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject:

Yvonne,

Please tell me more, I am captivated. How do you use it? Recipes to have on with/on your sour dough bread, etc.

More, more, more, Please

I am going to start making a batch/culture, whatever you call in the next few days. This one really appeals to me.
_________________
In Lust, In Like, In Love.

Gareth

"It’s going to take time, a whole lot of precious time. It’s going to take patience and time; to do it right."

kaz · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject:

We'll let you test it out first Gareth

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conundrum · Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 1853 Location: East Midlands

Don't know about making it, but I love to eat it...one of my favourite breads.

Had a sourdough (homemade by a friend) bread bowl filled with soup once, that was lovely on a cold snowy day...yummy! Never got to eat my food bowl before!!
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If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes.

Gareth · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject:

lilwitedogs · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 1170 Location: Kentucky

We were in Alaska on holiday and found this super little bakery/restaurant in Homer. Homer is a fishing town, pretty place, nice people, bald eagles literally in flocks there, too.

Anyhow, the bakery place would sell their starter. I bought some, brought it back on the plane as carry on, left it over night in cold storage at the Seattle airport. Dwain thought I'd never use the stuff.

I keep it in a covered crock in the refrigerator, feeding it about once a week. Usually I make waffles on Sunday morning. I get the starter out on Saturday, put in a cup of lukewarm water and a cup and a half of flour. I stir it up well in the crock, put the lid back on and then set it on top of the electric cook stove, between the cooking elements. I turn the oven below on low, which warms up the stovetop a little, making the right temperature for the yeast.

Next morning, I take out 1 1/2 cups starter and put it in my mixing bowl.
Then I add:
1/4 cup melted butter (or corn oil works, too)
1/4 cup milk
1 teaspoon salt
2 teaspoons sugar
2 egg yolks
Mix that together

I beat the egg whites until stiff and fold them into the batter.

Then I heat the waffle iron and make waffles.

Also, I do not use metal containers or utensils with sourdough. I don't know if it makes a real difference, but was told not to do that.

I use unbleached, unbromated organic flour and I have a charcoal filter on the water in the kitchen to get chemicals out of the water. You want to try to have things as "natural" as possible for sourdough.

I'll let the remainder of the starter stay out on the counter for 24 hours before cooling it. You don't want to feed it and then cool it immediately, that is tough on the poor yeasties.
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Yvonne
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lilwitedogs · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 1170 Location: Kentucky

redladyfisher · Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 101

There are some VERY strange vibes going on here! I downloaded Ross's sourdough recipe a couple of weeks ago after my step daughter (who is Bermudian) complained she couldn't get really good sourdough bread here. I sorted out the jar for the starter yesterday, and literally just popped onto the computer on my way to the kitchen to get it going - and read this. Gareth - you're creating some some crazy brain waves here!! shocked.gif

Gareth · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:

Spooky.

I have just been in the kitchen for the last 30 minutes cleaning up, etc.

Guess what?

I thought it would be a good idea to start my sourdough, so I got the flour and water together and have just completed my first mix.
_________________
In Lust, In Like, In Love.

Gareth

"It’s going to take time, a whole lot of precious time. It’s going to take patience and time; to do it right."

lilwitedogs · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 1170 Location: Kentucky

Let us know how it goes.

Dwain says for me to tell you that sourdough bread makes the best French toast he's ever eaten.
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Yvonne
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Gareth · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject:

Right Yvonne,

I have mixed Two ladles of good old Co-Op Plain wheat flour with two ladles of cooled to luke warm, Boiled filtered water from the kettle. I have given it a good stirring with a plastic spoon in a plastic bowl, and have left it out on the kitchen work top.

If I am reading the instructions correctly, tomorrow evening, I halve this dough mix, and add one ladle of flour, and another ladle of water, and mix it well. This I repeat everyday for the next week. right ?

When I have a mature dough, I then place it in a jar in the refridgerator and feed it once a week, by halving the dough and adding another ladle of flour and another of water.

I have selected a Flip top glass kilner jar to kep my dough mix in. What size of Jar would you suggest. I have 0.5 L, 1.0L, & 1.5L jars available. I reckon thay my current mix has a volume of about 0.5L, which would be a handy amount for me to have about.
_________________
In Lust, In Like, In Love.

Gareth

"It’s going to take time, a whole lot of precious time. It’s going to take patience and time; to do it right."

lilwitedogs · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 1170 Location: Kentucky

That should work, Gareth.

I'd use the 1.5L to start. If that turns out to be more volume than you need, you can use the smaller size. I had my starter overun the crock once and it was messy.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

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Yvonne
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